Was Jesus an invention by the Romans?

[hardy]

Some quotes from pleiadians.net that are of an open mind and while agnostic i tend to agree with them. An open mind is the key.

God certainly does not live outside of us, but within us. And certainly, He does not live in one book where we must find all our answers. And last of all, He does not live in only select persons who reveal the one true way. If God lives within us, the answers are there already. Seek and ye shall find them.

People often turn to religion when searching for substance and meaning to their lives. Christianity in particular has permeated American culture, although awareness of this phenomena is not always recognized. Even those who profess no religion are caught up in overtones that weave throughout the very fabric of American society. People have become lost among morals, principles and beliefs that originated with Christianity.

What America is today is largely a result of the beliefs and ways of many of its founding fathers. They went in search of a new land. They went in search of freedom where they were able to express that which they believed. Their belief was the God of the Bible.

America was built upon a Biblical foundation. Even the Constitution was drawn up according to the morals and values of its forefathers. It is this foundation which America still rests upon, and by which everything is judged even today.

If Americas’ values and morals seem to be declining, it may only be because of repression. The human spirit was created in freedom, and in freedom it must express.

America might appear to be free, but internally the God of the Bible still rules. When the human spirit cannot live by rigid rules, it naturally rebels, whether from anger, guilt or repression.

True freedom and peace can only come when the spirit is allowed to be that which it. All of creation was indeed inspired by a loving, creative and non-judgmental God.

The God of the universe is so much bigger than the God of any book in existence. When we encase God in book form, we limit the capacity of all that Spirit is, because, after all, we are only human.

Many believe that to be an American is to be a Christian. Many believe that to be Indian, you must be Hindu, or to be Middle Eastern you must be Muslim, or as an Asian, you must be a Buddhist or believe in Shintoism.

These are only belief systems, and there are many around the world. It is when we look at a system outside of our own system that causes us to have real problems. The belief may seem strange only because we are not familiar with it, and so we judge and we condemn.

This is to be expected, after all, we are only human. It is not in our nature to accept those things that go beyond us or reside outside of our realm of knowledge. If something is different, it is suspect, or wrong.

There are many things in our universe that go beyond the realm of what we know. And indeed, there are belief systems that go way beyond the familiar concepts that we are comfortable with. On this Earth, there are vast majorities searching desperately, seeking deeper truths and meaning. As many forge down new paths, trekking across once forbidden boundaries…they will eventually find answers that truly satisfy the soul.

These answers may not always come in a familiar and comfortable way. We are indeed entering a New Age. We are evolving rapidly, as new, enlightening information is presenting itself to us more than ever.

What IS important is that we remain open enough to receive that which will help us to be all we were meant to be. We are spiritual beings, and it is our right to know all that we should know, and express that which we are.

Religions can limit spiritual evolution. Of course, there are many that need God and they find their God through organized religion. This is fine. There are many levels to our evolving. It’s when we start limiting ourselves spiritually that problems arise deep in our souls.

Sometimes we can end up walking alone in the dark, or stumble as a group, all senses shut down. We smile outwardly and follow the rules or the group, but inside, we yearn for more.

Much of humanity believes that God is only capable of speaking through the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, Holy books and Holy people. This is absurd! By believing this, we are limiting ourselves.

We often attach our own blinders, and refuse to look elsewhere for enlightenment. And, we do not ask questions, because our Holy books requires strict adherence to a set of rules that forbids exploration.

Times are changing. People are not as willing to believe something just because it is expected. Minds are expanding and souls are evolving. This naturally produces a certain yearning for something more, and so it is that a spiritual explosion of sorts is taking place.

Humanity craves, in the deepest most secret parts of itself, those things which it knows nothing of as yet.

Humans yearn to know things, and wonder at the meaning of it all. What is all this craziness about anyway? In and of ourselves, we don’t always know or understand. The struggle goes on, day after day as we try to cope and simply survive. By looking beyond ourselves, answers can sometimes be found. It is possible, as it has always been, that certain human beings are able to tune into other dimensions.

[Dv8]

"What IS important is that we remain open enough to receive that which will help us to be all we were meant to be"

agreed , i may seem to have my case open and shut , but its not really the case i have looked at religions , science and like i said laid my cards at the feet of what is an amazing book , thats " imo" , the torah btw is included in the bible in that its books ( Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) are a part of the old testament .

Thats where i differ i guess that i use the bible for my knowledge and its reason for what it says is false religions , i cant say i have blinders on or havent looked elsewhere becuase ive spent way to much time , more than the average christian i guess because i didnt believe any so called holy book , or someones interpretation of it , my intent was to prove it wrong .
My life would be a hell of a lot easier if i was a non-believer , i have made my own search , looong and hard to provide answers to the questions ive had .

Your right everybody has there beliefs , i sometimes wish mine were different , but to me i cannot deny where my search has led me , im open yes , but for now science isnt answering any questions , Jesus did live , was he gods son ? were adam and eve real ?
Im the only one here that believes that satan is a real entity , because of the misery on the earth and becuase he is a major player in the bible ie decieving adam and eve , so yes i have found my truth and most christians beleive the same , buddism , budda was a person who didnt believe in a creator , so makes no sense to me , what i percieve is to much false information to much information can only confuse , i believed in a god from about 4 yrs old i think , when i was in my teens my search began , its been a hard slog trying to work out what made sense and what didnt , evolution is taught in school as fact when i dont believe its a fact , i believe species can adapt and cross breed , but a dog will always be a dog , species have become extinct , the mammoth , did the elephant evolve from the mammoth or did both co-exist or cross breed until the climate killed one branch off ?

Hardy i hope u find your answers , im 95% sure theres a creator and 30% sure about evolution , ie i beleive theres enough information in the genome for variation , not one species turning into another , i dont believe we came from apes , im well aware of religeous indoctrination and evolutionary indoctrination , like i said my beliefs have made me unpopular in one form or another , but the ppl who argue with me about evolution vs creation mostly follow the crowd and believe what everybody else does and usually i know more about evolution than they do .
Im not saying im right , im saying i believe im right with the extensive information ive looked at over 2 decades , i ask myself sometimes why would it be that hard to find god ?

The bible gives me the explanation and before i picked up a bible i knew god by looking at creation as i grew up , maybe god wants to know just who can see him and who either isnt cared or wants to believe what i call the lie of evolution .

I cant understand non-belief in god , i know theres things we will never know , and the bible says that satan said to eve that "god doesnt want u to be like us and know all things" ...

I beleive that the truth will be revealed in the future one way or another ...

[Dv8]

And with evolution , i would only still assume god is molding the planet to become what he intends .
The bible says in what order things appeared on the earth .
The Earth , the plants , animals , birds , then man last . Shows god was getting the earth ready for man , i dont see god as a magician that can pull off magic , i believe he has the power over forces to produce outcomes , and leaves endless possibilites in genome of all species to have great variety , like the many butterflys etc and what ppl call branches of the evolutionary tree .

I just see that if indeed we evolve , its within "natures " laws to co-exist with other species on the planet , and just becuase they are in the fossil record is that is because there extinct for a reason , maybe there was a genetic mix amongst the alpha male and female of a species to produce a healthier version (but the same species) while a climate change saw the other less adapted types to fail .
But i see purpose and design , and the beliefs about god i had as a 4 yr old have remained the same , that god made us i thought was obvious , that he had a purpose a given , and there would have to be a damn good reason why the contrast between nature and mankind , i found my questions answered excactly like i thought in the bible yrs later .

And since me personally have not seen any advancments of man that will ever rival nature , or that mankind could ever contemplate to even begin to understand the intelligence of a creator , or reproduce anything in nature than nature cant do better"itself" .
Mankind with his intelligence doesnt seem to be going in the correct direction .

no way preaching anything , just saying my searching kept leading me back to the bible , maybe im a one off
but the bible says there will be so much happening around the world that ppl will be so busy , consumed with
materialism and survival it will distract them from the real issues all around them , not given the time to think
about life , more caught in a tide .

Jesus said there will be alot happening , false prophets claiming this date and that date , wars , earthquakes in one place after another , says not to be decieved with predictions about times and dates at the end becuase there will be so much false information around that ,you,ll fail to see whats right in front of you .

says when u see all these things happening at the same time , know that change is near .Thats the information is in the bible where it has answered my past questions growing up . But to say we came from nothing and that god has abandoned us doesnt make sense to anybody ive talked to (not saying they believe in god) it just doesnt make sense why the world is wicked when gods supposed to be love ! So they discount god .

Sry im no scientist and im not sure my IQ but when i hear Educated ppl like Richard Dawkins talk about how the universe was "before" the big bang that it was energy that exploded to matter then expanded and by a miraculous events the pieces fell in the right spots , and then he went on to say with some laurance Krauss i think , about how you get something from nothing , it looked like two lecturers trying to teach/convince the other "scientists" in the class of there hypothesis/theory .

Because they have tested and confirmed some things i dont think with a couple of hundred yrs of technology can we be making that call just yet , we havent found all the species in the ocean yet i think it way to premature to think scientists have any idea outside of the laws they work by to say they have a satisfactory explanation about life , again i,ll go back to creatures like the chameleon that like other creatures can change color on command , magic technology for modern armies , this can be seen in all of nature , complexity , surpases man and his inferior intelligence in thinking he can duplicate anything as good ...or ever explain it ..

[Dv8]

page 9 of this post , omg

n always look on the bright side of life dum num dum num num num num ...

[Dv8]

I,ll leave the discussion , i should of before as i said , ppl need to make there own mind up as i have mine , i am like minded with other christians and had many a pm with henry phox , i didnt need to explain anything to him or other christians regardless of the denomination , becuase in all bibles , weather the king james version , New american bible , NIV -new international version ,ESV- English standard version and many more , do what i did cross reference as many as you like scripture for scripture , the only differences between any of them is for example the king james uses thee and tho and old english , modern versions use modern english , compare them all to say there bible has changed its original content is a misconception , apart form some taking out gods name -Jehovah and replacing it with lord to support a trinity ,
but it says in the king james version that catholics use about not to bow to images etc , and it says that ppl need to look at the church to see if they are following gods word or preaching there own , silently falling away from gods word and believing mans .

The main content has remained unchanged in all as i would expect a creator to protect imo , the information is there for those that can see it , because ppl and religions have seen an oppurtunity to twist some words to suit there own ends , doesnt make the bible false it makes the religion false ,
as said before the bible vividly describes the catholic church it says to observe the church if they do not follow my words they do not belong to me , uses a parable - a good tree produces good fruit a bad tree produces bad fruit , by there fruits you will recognize them . On an individual level ie the catholic christians themselves i believe what the bible says "that god sees what the heart is " and im sure isnt going to punish ppl if there heart is in the right place even if they are in a wrong "church "

Its more gods anger at the church for misleading his ppl , and as said and predicted the catholic church and all fasle religion will pay , says again satan is the master deciever and if he can make ppl think they are serving god when infact he has got them believing falsehoods he is doing as predicted , as i said previous the bible says no-body knows on what date armageddon will be , not Satan , not the angels not even jesus , only god , but go,s on to say the conditions on earth and that satan knows his time is running out , if he cant decieve and rule mankind successfully he will try to destroy gods creation , its all there in the bible .

I have ( my ) answers , i really hate religeous debate , god tells christians its there duty to preach the good news of the kingdom .
I certainly wont be posting subjects about it , only has and will make christians a target , moreso in the future , if i see a post that is clearly misleading i am compelled to respond and i hate doing so , i dont expect ppl to believe what i do , but dont discount information without some research , the question of weather the romans invented jesus is just another misleading conception debunked .

Wont be replying to anymore posts here the subject has been done to death

[kplxz]

[kplxz]

@dv - some people are curious, some people aren't interested at all, some people are seriously researching...trying to talk about it with the curious or those who aren't interested is like a UNI finance student at a bar talking about governemental economic policies...it's not going to make any sense and if anything start a fight...

each to their own

[INKoRP]

Nice analogy there Sifz

[hardy]

[kplxz]

lol hardy u roxr

u been missed

[frodo]

didnt read much of the above , just a bit of Hards reposted quotes that stated USA is the same as it was when founded ( are we still a big prison then ? ). I know I have been accused on this forum before of posting my thoughts without knowing what I am talking about, but...........

I grew up in a very catholic environment, and over the years had every type of theological theory preached to me etc etc but I have never heard anything that makes me go " huh look at that. There really is a god".
I am not against the idea or anything and never try to tell other ppl what to think. Even my own kids I always try to get them to make up their own minds about things. Like when they get scared at night of things like ghosts I say " really? Lets go find it! I have always wanted to see one but funny thing is I have never been able to".
Pretty much same deal with a god. If anyone could clear my mind on this in either direction it would be a good thing.

[frodo]

ok., just read the thread a bit more ..... I might have been off target a bit but still the same thoughts

What do you mean by thousands of other races H ?

Is this something else I cant see?

[Dv8]

nice post frodo with the ghosts , till this day i remember as a child and swear by what i saw standing at the end of my bed , a shadow figure of what looked like a big man , it never moved just stayed looking at me , i was to scared to yell out to my parents and didnt think they,d believe me anyway , i saw this thing on two occasions the second after pulling my head under then over the covers to see if it had gone , was still there , i thought at that time it meant me no harm , but wanted to know what it wanted , weather it was there to hurt me or just observe , i plucked up the courage and got out of my bed and followed it , out of my bedroom , through the kitchen and into the bathroom where it dissapered .

I still swear to this day what i saw was there , it wasnt to recently where i looked into this and was astounded at how many reported cases there is of this excact same thing same type of figure standing at the feat of ppls beds , so i do not put it down to a kids immagination , i know what i saw , but i believe a childs heart is more pure (not-corrupted) and thats why sometimes maybe they can see or have an experience that we as adults cannot .

(the pictures ive seen of what ppl have drawn standing at the foot of there bed made me shudder as it was excactly what i saw)

I dont sway my kids either way , but i cant say i,d discount what a child tells you becuase of my experiences and then the millions of others that experienced the excact thing ...

[hardy]

[Dv8]

What u see as other races hardy i see as angels and demons , demons described in the bible as the angels that rebelled with satan .

Bible does say some bred with humans to make a hybrid (nephilm) accounting for the giant in david and giliath

"It sounds plausible enough "

Again i get my info from the bible on all matters not to discourage your own search .
What i saw at the end of my bed as a child imo was not a ghost as i dont believe in ghosts as such and there not mentioned in the bible it says once your dead your dead , your spirit go,s back to god until jesus resurrects u , so u could be dead for 1000 yrs before u "get the call " , those who die closer to armageddon resurected first and those that died long ago resurrected later , the bible describes the reason for the difference which not going to go into .

Back to what i saw at the end of my bed , i think it was a spirit of some sort , angels and demons look the same forget the artists impressions , the bible describes satan as a beutifull angel , at the time i thought it was a ghost , ive allways been spirituall from an early age , my belief in god surfaced about the same time but before i saw this thing at the end of my bed .

My brothers 2 others , so 3 of us in the same bedroom but they are non-believers allways have been , they never reported seeing anything , i did believe in god and saw this thing , and before anybody pipes up and says u saw it because of preconcieved beliefs is not at all the case , i know what i saw , like i said researched only recently and was astounded at how many ppl have seen the exact same thing .

So no i dont believe in ghosts , dont believe what i saw was a "ghost" as in a dead person , i think it was a spirit i dont know weather a good one or bad one as it didnt seem like it wanted to hurt me only observe , i think because i was spiritually aware this being came for a visit .

So what ppl call other races , aliens etc i believe are spirits which in any interpretation is not human hence " Alien " , but i beleive all are from god and they are described in the bible , im not telling anybody to search for your answers there , just saying the bible has an answer for everything , which makes sense to me .

But what i saw at the end of my bed scared the frikkin crap out of me and can vividly remember it , different light spectrums ? maybe
never heard of any adults seeing this only children , my belief is that like i said a childs heart is uncorrupted and can see things we cannot , thats the reason no-one has "seen"god our heart is not pure enough to be in his presence , hasnt been since adam and eve hence the reason for jesus to come as a man .

Jesus was a "spirit" and walked among men yet funnily enough no-body believes in that one