The God Delusion

[4rez]

[Dv8]

No offence at all taken 4rez , and you not agreeing with me more lol doesnt offend me either mate , its how
ppl say things that offend me , and you,ve said it beutifully imo .

I dont mind debate at all if its mature as imo your post is .
I do believe firmly in a god , sometimes i wish i didnt , but with my study of the bible (and i find it hard to comprehend all in the bible)dont get me wrong ,
but theres things in there that are irrefutible imo and thats my opinion .
Ive looked at evolution long and hard enough for me to form my opinions on that , if scientist come up with more of the missing links than can be disputed then ( and it,s alot more than mssing links , i know .) it,ll be a hard lesson for me but one im open minded enough to if ever that time comes , i believe it never will .
From my point of view ppl know where it lies , ive had my own journey looked at alot of things and made a decision based on what
ive gleened over the years , thanx for respecting my opinion as i respect yours . cheers

[kplxz]

[INKoRP]

[Dv8]

Love
Joy
Peace
Patience
Kindness
Goodness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Self-control

Do to others what you would like done for yourself .

More happiness in giving than recieving

To name just a few


OR

Murder
Depravity
Greed
Jealousy
Hate
Deceit
Malice
Holding grudges
Gossip
Slander
A hate for God
Insolence
Arrogance and boasting
Disobedience to parents

But to specifically answer your question , a father knows the world better than his child , a child may
not agree with what the father says and sometimes disobeys usually to the childs peril (hurt/pain etc)

God knows us and the world better than we know ourselves and the guide he has givin is for our benefit
not our harm regardless of weather we see it or not .
I know by my own experience abstinance from things usually brings more happiness than indulging .

[INKoRP]

So we're free to pick and choose the parts from the bible that we like or is it supposed to be taken as a whole?

[Dv8]

Obviously the old testament is obsolete , as jesus said with him all previous laws etc are dead .
As he said the golden rule is to treat others how you would like to be treated , thats what all the laws
mean in a nutshell ( dont commit adultry , dont murder etc becuase you wouldnt like it done to you )

I sense the hook (wink) , i personally know what was going on in the old testament , jesus was promised
through the family line of israel , again thats pretty much what the old testament was about , apart from lessons from the
past regarding sodom and gomera etc etc .

Overall the message has been the same , you dont read the bible like a normal book from cover to cover
if ive got something i need to find out i go to the paragraph then usually read before it to see the context of what was being said,
the bible says to test it , i hate sounding like a preacher and hate being drawn in as i am but i,ll answer the question .

I look at the words of jesus for answeres i need , for a path i need to take because if you look at some of the parables jesus said
it went over some poeples heads then and now even , but if you think about what he was saying , shooting from the hip with no
script he was spot on with his take on justice , judgement , how we all answer to god no matter where we stand in society etc etc , whether we are millionares or on the dole , really if you ever read one of the gospels i doubt you,d disagree with what he taught .
So yer choose what works for you or dont , i rarely read the old testament alot of it is prophecies .

[INKoRP]

So do you also pick and choose the parts in which you believe?

[Dv8]

lol , inkorp i sense the trap

No i believe , what i can comprehend , some things i cant comprehend so i accept because overall i believe the message in the bible , the prophecies and the fact that archeology and historians have confirmed alot of previous sites / ppl etc that was only ever previously mentioned in the bible .
ie Garden of Eden was said to be on the junction of 4 rivers , euphrates / tigris and two others that geologists/Science put down to myth until recent satelite images confirmed they existed , also sodom and gomera have never been found the bible says they existed so i believe it along with the exodes etc.

As said when i compare , Evolution vs Creation , the reason in the bible for the way the world is as it is , why we are here
and when we are going , ive come to the conclusion , the bible holds the reason things are .
Vs Evolution to me is an impossibilty , as said ive looked at both VERY hard and came to my own conclusion .
And can see very much prophecies being fullfilled in our time .

[INKoRP]

Are you happy with the general christian consensus on carbon dating and fossils?

[Dv8]

No , im not happy with carbon dating weather viewed as a christian or scientist as its been shown to be flawed .
Fossils , i dont see how a christian has any knowledge of fossils apart from what the scientific community has put forward ,
in saying that science is prone to error to .
If your talking about cave men ? Yes i believe in cave men but not the neanderthal , homo erectus type , more the bronze age and pre BC type .
there has been very very limited fossil evidence found to prove or disprove anything conclusively .

[INKoRP]

Why are you unhappy with it?

I would view carbon dating more as inaccurate instead of flawed, if you read up on the method it's fairly obvious it's a mere guideline.

Regardless of the theory involved, is it purely shunned because of placing the age of some artifacts older then 6000 years? What would the biblical equivalent be for dating artifacts? Pure denial? Praying for the answer? I'm not being sarcastic (well maybe a little ) I'm genuinely curious?

I wasn't talking about cave-men no. Admittedly I'm sure there aren't many christians really pushing the scientific boundaries? I mean where do we draw the line? The bible contains the guidlines for living, apparantly, so why not jump in with both feet and look for answers to all our problems and questions in there? When do we stop thinking for ourselves? Testing for ourselves? Seeing for ourselves?

I equate it to two children approaching a math problem:
Kid A takes a guess based on the numbers involved and some other unverified data heard in his travels and claims being correct.

Kid B works it out as best he can with the available data, makes mistakes but currently isn't claiming to have the final answer, however based on solid fact alone eventually he may get there and he WILL be right and will be confident in that.

I think it's a long, hard road getting to the answers but it's worth it I think, instead of just stagnating.

[Dv8]

Ok innacurate's a better term , but also has shown to completelty wrong and science has shown it can produce material in a lab , carbon date it to a miilion or so years old , when in fact its only a couple of weeks old .
Carbon dating is also only accurate to a few thousand years ago anyway , plus it is pretty useless on anything non-organic ( including rocks and fossils ) , and apart from that Carbon can build up in an animal on top of atmespheric carbon making results innacurate , yes they compensate for that , but makes it completely useless in marine animals etc .

I dont know of any christians who think the earth is less than ten thousand years old , christians believe man to of only been here that long , i dont know how long the earth has been here .

Questioning things yes , human nature , but as ive pointed out the bible shows god only wanted man to know good , not bad ,
By listening to him we were promised eternall life , by not it was at our peril .
And it says in the end he will save us from ourselves , because as history has shown , man is greedy , savage , dominating and will rape the planet without regard for neighbour , we are not living under gods guidence and will , have , going to pay the price for our (own) actions , not from god but what we are bringing on ourselves .

Original question from satan "man can do quite fine without you " I look at the father son thing , i know whats best for my kids , they,ll argue , stamp there feet etc , but im doing it for there own good ( listen to me and you,ll be fine ) ( Dont and you can get into all sorts of trouble ) Not a dictatorship but out of love .

[Dv8]

Also
In Australia , Queensland in fact some wood found in Volcanic rock (basalt) was buried in a lava flow that formed the basalt, as can be seen from charring. The wood was ‘dated’ by radiocarbon analysis at about 45,000 years old, but the basalt was ‘dated’ by the potassium-argon method at 45 million years old . You see this contradiction constantly in dating methods , trying to date the impossible with the so-called best methods they have today . These are the facts science tells us to accept when in fact they arent facts .

Science can not study anything accurately in the past when it has to study it in a lab today , its flawed .

[kplxz]