The God Delusion

[Flyphe]

No reply's from the evolutionists/atheist's yet. Thanks DV8, if you know your stuff and have done the research things are clear. Being ignorant doesnt work. You can say "God isnt real!"(you may be right even), but until you have proof of his non-existance(im yet to see any ACTUAL proof) then you cant say there isnt a God. Really though, look at nature, the stars at night. How beautiful is everything? There is evidence all around us of a divine creator, to say that it all happened by chance is hard to believe. Also, evolutionists also say, if life didnt spontainiously occur then Alians must have brought life and seeded it on earth. Aliens or God? You choose.

[Gubben]

Thats why im agnostic not athiest. Not being able to prove gods non existence is cancelled out by not being able to prove its existence either.

"Knowing ones stuff" with reference to Religion and God is amusing since the only stuff one can tangibly know aside from our senses is drawn from a book written by men, channelling angels. Quite an interesting idea.

Nevertheless, this is a discussion. Unless all of us are real scholars on either subject of science or theology we should all stfu not just the righteous ones telling us to. But we aint all scholars, we are just laymen, even those that have "done their research", and i think to tell those that havent "researched" the stuff before talking means their viewpoint isnt valid, or their understandings arent valid. Again, self righteous viewpoints.

No one KNOWS shit about any of these questions, not you religious believers and not you athiest non believers. No One KNows SHit. The religious followers are trying to make sense of the enormity, not being able to without including a supernatural element and steadfastly believing it to be gospel, pun intended. Science instead attempts to make an understanding based on a starting point that is so unimaginable that we have only a theory of what it is. Until proven otherwise that theory will be kicked around forever. From a basis of understanding or hypothesis we have learned a great deal about ourselves. But because science has answered only a fraction of the enormous questions doesnt make it any less valid a position to take. At least the scientific method attempts to clarify the unimaginable through analysis and assessment repeating the results, religion, as it is today, is an ancient minded belief which quite frankly today needs to be revised somewhat... And in that process perhaps looking at the legacy of the worlds religions and some accountability.

Tbh, the alien theory makes more sense than the supernatural theory.

[kidToni78]

[hardy]

[Gubben]

also, aliens?? seriously?

that makes me lol, that believers find it hard to imagine that there might be other forms of life in the universe... but that an imaginary all powerful god exists...

Hell yes aliens, why not? Some that look similar to us, who cloned us from apes or hominids of one species or another. Would answer the god made man in his image theory... and the missing links... yes an all powerful creator is believable but another life form from another planet is not. gg.

[hardy]

Yeah if i had to pick between Aliens and God id sure pick Aliens any day although i'm agnostic i am starting to have beliefs that the system of god was put in place as a means to keeping control on the masses and making sure they comply with what ever it is the fat cats in control want you to comply with. I reckon it was a superbly well thought out plan that has proved to be a great success.

This shit is big business! $$$$

[Dv8]

"Tbh, the alien theory makes more sense than the supernatural theory."
Seriously ?

Ok so the colour of fish , flowers the pattern in shells , the animals plants etc etc , were seeded by aliens ?
Yer Aliens seeded the earth , did they hang around long enough to look at ecosystems , etc etc .

I really can understand a statement like that , that sounds purely atheist to me .
A God of order no , aliens yes sigh ...

"countless numbers of sites in the bible have been backed up by SCIENCE. the so called "scientific method" actually supports the bible more than it does the scientific theories"

True , gubben look some stuff up before you blindly discredit the bible , even other manuscripts found tell the same things as found in the bible . But again you dont believe in angels but aliens are ok , i give up ...

'we should all stfu" agreed , but im not content with believing something without research , plenty of ppl here have discredited the bible without any idea of its contents , and no idea about evolution theories .
and the thread was ( THE GOD DELUSION ) do ppl expect christians to stfu about a book titled such ?

[Gubben]

no im saying that no one really knows and for god believers to tell us to stfu until research is done makes me lol sorry. And im not saying aliens made the planet or the universe, im suggesting they may have made humans.... that theory seems as plausible as your god theory. Also, scientists have found numerous sites or clues to Atlantis too, does that mean that a civillisation existed before noted historical records and has subsequently dissapeared under the sands of time? Meaning that your 10000 year theory is up the shit ...?

And tbh i subscribe to there being a creative force in the universe, i just dont buy your jesus/god in mans image theory... i reckon if there is a creative force, it is beyond our capacity to understand it... certainly aint some old dood in the "heavens" who loves us...

[hardy]

Yeah defiantly beyond any of our understanding. Who ever wrote the bible was on some heavy psychoactive plant matter lols. Great story though

I have a question about the bible. Is the new testament heavily revised from the old testament? Like how drastic where the changes and when did the new testament come about? is gods existence all based around one book? If the hebrews held the original old testament then when did the Christians think it was ok to waltz in and rewrite the book and completely change the testaments originality because they didn't agree with it ?

There's quite a few things that don't quite drum up. Sorry for my misunderstanding on the bible lol.

[kidToni78]

the Torah is the jewish sacred text. it is comprised of multiple books that are also contained in the bible. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Dueteronomy are 5 of them. the difference is that the Jewish Torah stops at Jesus. Jesus was born a Jew, and some say he was trying to re-shape the Jewish church, one of the reasons the Jews hated him. The biggest difference between Christianity and Judaism is the belief in Jesus as being the Messiah. The new testament is based mainly on Jesus, and it contains the books written by the 12 Apostles. This is the reason that much of the new testament is not included in the Torah, because the Jews don't follow the teachings of Jesus.

[kidToni78]

[Flyphe]

To all you people still wanting to be atheist and believe in evolution think about this. Do you support gay's? If you believe in evolution then you shouldnt. Why? WELL!!! Evolution says "survival of the fittest" no? The strong and smart survive, the weak and un-evolved and stupid ones die off. Well, if you are gay how does the human race continue? News Flash! It cant. If you are gay thats the end of the line for your genes and as a result cannot be natural as your 'aspect' of the human race will die off as it cannot continue. If you are gay, you then have 2 choices (as it isnt natural), its a mutation - you will die off, gays will eventually cease to exist as they are the weakest link. OR, its a choice - you choose to be gay or not to satisfy your own personal selfish sexual desires.

In short, it cant be natural to be gay because of "survival of the fittest" says you cant continue in the 'evolution' of things.

Also, look at everything in nature, the standard way things roll is continuing this seemingly 'law' of creation/reproduction. As a gay you cannot reproduce.

P.S if i have offended anyone i am sorry, just stating a fact that may shock some.

[INKoRP]

By this logic all advanced maths is 'GOD' to me as I cbf if I can figure it out

[hardy]

[spud]

to answer the first post of this page - the reason I don't bother posting here any more is because it has become a headfuck of frequently demonstrated ignorance, lame 3rd grade rhetorical ploys and strawman attacks, massive obvious repeated failure to grasp scientific fundamentals, willingness to believe the most absurd nonsense and just general inability to reason coherently or construct a thoughtful argument. Believe it or not, I have read and heard almost everything being thrown around by the creationists in this thread many, many times before.
To those claiming to have studied or researched evolution and science, I'm sorry to say but it is painfully obvious to anyone who actually has done so that your "research" comes straight from the creationist dogma literature. You are simply prattling off arguments that have been frequently and repeatedly demonstrated to be wrong (at best), and anyone who has participated in discussion like this in the past will be very familiar with them, and most likely sick to fucking death of arguing about it. I've made more than enough posts in this thread for you to know my position, I have absolutely nothing to gain by continuing to do so. I admit I have been tempted to reply and have even done so in the heat of the moment, only to later delete my post since I really just don't care what any one still posting seriously here thinks (with the exceptions of iNKoRP who will probably give up soon as well, Gubben who is always entertaining, and hardy who seems to be batshit crazy but amiable ). I will no doubt keep reading and will occasionally post on tangentially related topics (like this) as they arise, but will not be participating in the creationist/evolutionist debate any further once I've pressed the 'Submit' button.

I am an atheist rather than an agnostic because I perceive god (any god) to be pure fantasy. Yes, I cannot prove he doesn't exist and will never be able to do so, but I am also unable to prove the non-existence of faeries, Zeus, Superman, Santa Claus or the Doom Marine - does that mean I have to entertain as plausible the ravings of fools who do believe in them just because I cannot definitively prove them wrong? Of course not. So for the same reason I am not agnostic about the tooth fairy, I am also not agnostic about any supernatural or religious being.

I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that anyone else who identifies themselves as an atheist and had participated earlier in the thread, but no longer contributes, feels exactly the same way.

EDIT: toned down the post to be less confrontational