).... and fkn old ladies who come to my door tryin to sell me shit or convert me or sign me up to a charity cause if i don't millions of children will die.... oh i hate fkn paper-cuts too....Get orf my lawn too ya cunts....
The God Delusion
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jay
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Oh i fkn hate telemarketers too.... and cunts who talk on mobiles while drivin (i try to run em off the road if i can- legally of course ).... and fkn old ladies who come to my door tryin to sell me shit or convert me or sign me up to a charity cause if i don't millions of children will die.... oh i hate fkn paper-cuts too....
Get orf my lawn too ya cunts....
).... and fkn old ladies who come to my door tryin to sell me shit or convert me or sign me up to a charity cause if i don't millions of children will die.... oh i hate fkn paper-cuts too....Get orf my lawn too ya cunts....
Arguing on the internet is like winning the special Olympics. Even if you win you're still a 'tard!
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kplxz
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talk on mobiles while driving? sif...seen Top Gear latest season? Proven: driving in a sleeping bag is safe.
srs though I grew up driving cars, motorbikes, and trucks (big enough ones)...if people don't have the skills they need for driving then fool them but I surely can do a lot of shit while driving...what's next...don't eat a chip while driving?
srs though I grew up driving cars, motorbikes, and trucks (big enough ones)...if people don't have the skills they need for driving then fool them but I surely can do a lot of shit while driving...what's next...don't eat a chip while driving?
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jay
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Re:
Arguing on the internet is like winning the special Olympics. Even if you win you're still a 'tard!
excellent post gubben, I'm glad you posted that, it gave me something to think about.
Many atheists are bloody minded, I have been in the past. But I care much less these days. Mostly my disdain is directed at organised religion, but I find any supernatural belief to be lame. Like you said, the world is the most amazing miracle imaginable; taking that and explaining by saying a magic dude in the sky did it because he loves us just cheapens the spectacle. I don't believe in any greater scheme or purpose and I don't think there's a metaphysical reason to it all - I reckon everything just is, and that's pretty amazing in it's own right.
Many atheists are bloody minded, I have been in the past. But I care much less these days. Mostly my disdain is directed at organised religion, but I find any supernatural belief to be lame. Like you said, the world is the most amazing miracle imaginable; taking that and explaining by saying a magic dude in the sky did it because he loves us just cheapens the spectacle. I don't believe in any greater scheme or purpose and I don't think there's a metaphysical reason to it all - I reckon everything just is, and that's pretty amazing in it's own right.
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Dv8
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kplxz -excactly , no funny perspective here , and i wasnt going to bother replying to a tiresome rehashed thread for the
ënjoyment of newbies .
The "Funny" thing about this thread as if "god"is a non issue why does it keep getting rehashed by atheists ?
And i believe what i do , atheists can lol all they like , it takes balls to go against the crowd , rather than sit on the edge and throw stones because someone thinks its funny or to provide entertainment for the crowd .
thing is the bible has a beginning and end , a timeline of mankind , some of its authors didnt even understand what they were writing , daniel in particular was told write it down you will not understand but poeple living in the endtimes will .
He was talking about a global collapse through a world government .
So the not so funny bit is that the world is getting close to the time when the governments will bring in a "New world Order"
A global government , global tax, global currency , global rule , nothing will be able to be bought or sold unless poeple have a unique ID , which is already well underway in india .
So as far as bible prophecy go,s this is an interesting time .
I dont get sucked in to beleive everything the governmets do as other ppl do , as the bible says satan is decieving the whole world .
PPl beleive everything the governments tell them especailly the U.S.A .
ënjoyment of newbies .
The "Funny" thing about this thread as if "god"is a non issue why does it keep getting rehashed by atheists ?
And i believe what i do , atheists can lol all they like , it takes balls to go against the crowd , rather than sit on the edge and throw stones because someone thinks its funny or to provide entertainment for the crowd .
thing is the bible has a beginning and end , a timeline of mankind , some of its authors didnt even understand what they were writing , daniel in particular was told write it down you will not understand but poeple living in the endtimes will .
He was talking about a global collapse through a world government .
So the not so funny bit is that the world is getting close to the time when the governments will bring in a "New world Order"
A global government , global tax, global currency , global rule , nothing will be able to be bought or sold unless poeple have a unique ID , which is already well underway in india .
So as far as bible prophecy go,s this is an interesting time .
I dont get sucked in to beleive everything the governmets do as other ppl do , as the bible says satan is decieving the whole world .
PPl beleive everything the governments tell them especailly the U.S.A .
Re: The God Delusion
hey dv8 no disrespect to you or your thoughts/beliefs, and i dont think i'm throwing stones, i truly would like those questions answered, not that i believe you could provide the answers (nor anyone else for that matter).
The New World Order is already upon us. But as for believing what the govt tells us, i think since 911 and then Wikileaks, that has changed a lot. Since the Arab Spring and the Occupy movement there is a groundswell of change coming. If the Mayan 2012 calander has any weight to it, it is not an ecological disaster coming at us from this year on, it is a social one, and i believe it is already under way. The occupy movement is the start of it, and i dont believe it will stop. The injustice is too far reaching, and no god is coming to help, all the "god" does is talk of the doom which follows... so he/it is not much help there either...
Id say this thread, and the same discussion world wide, continues because religion is a pervasive force on societies of all denominations, and its imposition on us causes division. Its not as if the existence of religious belief has brought any peace to this world, on the contrary it has brought war and oppression throughout the ages, atrocities in the name god... It is a money making scheme and a form of control. Aside from anything else, these religious movements all have tax benefits that boggle the mind... And whose god is the "real" one?
Btw i find it curious that you dont believe everything that govts tell you but that you believe lock stock and barrel what is written in the bible? Daniel was told to write it down by whom? and why doesnt that same entity continue to offer advice?
How do you seperate religion from god? I mean this discussion goes on and on and in the end, no matter who you are in the world, beggar, corporate chief, priest, no one can confirm or deny the existence of this so called higher being. Maybe when scientists crack the string theory and worm holes we might be able to switch dimensions and do all sorts of cosmic shit that takes us into the so called realm of heaven... but we might just find out that god is an alien from the Pleiades (sp?) That the missing links are in their laboratories, along with a whole bunch of ape dna....?
The New World Order is already upon us. But as for believing what the govt tells us, i think since 911 and then Wikileaks, that has changed a lot. Since the Arab Spring and the Occupy movement there is a groundswell of change coming. If the Mayan 2012 calander has any weight to it, it is not an ecological disaster coming at us from this year on, it is a social one, and i believe it is already under way. The occupy movement is the start of it, and i dont believe it will stop. The injustice is too far reaching, and no god is coming to help, all the "god" does is talk of the doom which follows... so he/it is not much help there either...
Id say this thread, and the same discussion world wide, continues because religion is a pervasive force on societies of all denominations, and its imposition on us causes division. Its not as if the existence of religious belief has brought any peace to this world, on the contrary it has brought war and oppression throughout the ages, atrocities in the name god... It is a money making scheme and a form of control. Aside from anything else, these religious movements all have tax benefits that boggle the mind... And whose god is the "real" one?
Btw i find it curious that you dont believe everything that govts tell you but that you believe lock stock and barrel what is written in the bible? Daniel was told to write it down by whom? and why doesnt that same entity continue to offer advice?
How do you seperate religion from god? I mean this discussion goes on and on and in the end, no matter who you are in the world, beggar, corporate chief, priest, no one can confirm or deny the existence of this so called higher being. Maybe when scientists crack the string theory and worm holes we might be able to switch dimensions and do all sorts of cosmic shit that takes us into the so called realm of heaven... but we might just find out that god is an alien from the Pleiades (sp?) That the missing links are in their laboratories, along with a whole bunch of ape dna....?
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Dv8
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gubs didnt mean u mate not at all , i respect your opinion highly .
"not an ecological disaster coming at us from this year on, it is a social one, and i believe it is already under way. "
That is well observed the bible calls it the great tribulation followed by armageddon .
Some things are for certain hard to comprehend in the bible , but to me its harder to comprehend that life started from nothing ?
You cannot get life from no life .
The bible gives a clear reason as to why the worlds heading for catastrophe as it describes that which has never or will never happen again .
You also can easily seperate religion from god when ppl have an knowledgable understanding of the bible and how it itself condems religion as being used by the great deciever (Satan) to turn ppl against god .
Satan btw is not a horned demon with a pitchfork , religion can take the credit for that , thats how you seperate religion from god and also religion from the bible , the bible in fact says satan was actually a beutifull angel who turned on his creator along with other angels and then decided to take mankind with him .
Hocus pokus ?
Why does the bible predict a new world order with the devastating upcomming upheavals the worlds heading for , and written over 2000 yrs ago ?
Bible prophecy is like watching the news , we cannot do anything about it , its gonna happen no matter what we do , we are at the mercy of higher powers atm .
But watch this space for a new world order / mark of the beast - unique ID / Globaly ppl who believe ANY form of religion to either publicly reject their beliefs or be put to death (i hear everybody going hoorah)
New world government headed by the U.S.A will march and destroy any government/regime who does not join them .
Followed by a Declaration from this World body of Finally obtaining (Peace and Security) although it will be far from peace it will be a global dicatatorship .
Then The second comming and Armageddon .Shit will Hit.
We are getting desensited to it through hollywood etc now or for ages really .
So finally we believe in evolution and that life came from nothing , male and female co-evolved in every species , our concience our ability to know right from wrong evolved or we believe in God a power who as a father knows whats best for his children as does any father , not out of forced worship but because by listening to him will be beneficail for us as any father with a child knows .
And that has had a plan from the beginning of creation that he intends to see through regardless of the fact Satan has disrupted it for some thousands of years .
In eternity a few thousand years is nothing if it is to be settled once and for ever the question of gods right to rule .
Hell funny hey ?
"not an ecological disaster coming at us from this year on, it is a social one, and i believe it is already under way. "
That is well observed the bible calls it the great tribulation followed by armageddon .
Some things are for certain hard to comprehend in the bible , but to me its harder to comprehend that life started from nothing ?
You cannot get life from no life .
The bible gives a clear reason as to why the worlds heading for catastrophe as it describes that which has never or will never happen again .
You also can easily seperate religion from god when ppl have an knowledgable understanding of the bible and how it itself condems religion as being used by the great deciever (Satan) to turn ppl against god .
Satan btw is not a horned demon with a pitchfork , religion can take the credit for that , thats how you seperate religion from god and also religion from the bible , the bible in fact says satan was actually a beutifull angel who turned on his creator along with other angels and then decided to take mankind with him .
Hocus pokus ?
Why does the bible predict a new world order with the devastating upcomming upheavals the worlds heading for , and written over 2000 yrs ago ?
Bible prophecy is like watching the news , we cannot do anything about it , its gonna happen no matter what we do , we are at the mercy of higher powers atm .
But watch this space for a new world order / mark of the beast - unique ID / Globaly ppl who believe ANY form of religion to either publicly reject their beliefs or be put to death (i hear everybody going hoorah)
New world government headed by the U.S.A will march and destroy any government/regime who does not join them .
Followed by a Declaration from this World body of Finally obtaining (Peace and Security) although it will be far from peace it will be a global dicatatorship .
Then The second comming and Armageddon .Shit will Hit.
We are getting desensited to it through hollywood etc now or for ages really .
So finally we believe in evolution and that life came from nothing , male and female co-evolved in every species , our concience our ability to know right from wrong evolved or we believe in God a power who as a father knows whats best for his children as does any father , not out of forced worship but because by listening to him will be beneficail for us as any father with a child knows .
And that has had a plan from the beginning of creation that he intends to see through regardless of the fact Satan has disrupted it for some thousands of years .
In eternity a few thousand years is nothing if it is to be settled once and for ever the question of gods right to rule .
Hell funny hey ?
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kplxz
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Re: The God Delusion
can I respond here to you gubs also?
The New World Order is already upon us
- humankind being controlled by the few powerful ones isn't uncommon...the difference this time is they are using psychology en masse to have everyone believe this time it's different...
Its not as if the existence of religious belief has brought any peace to this world, on the contrary it has brought war and oppression throughout the ages, atrocities in the name god... It is a money making scheme and a form of control.
- it is not religion itself that causes the wars...it's the people doing it? Specifically during the last 100 years the controlling families and their clergy power people have manipulated all wars - they fund both sides with weapons, charging them interest on the loans, they push propoganda on both sides to create division...then they conquer. They use people's beliefs against them and drive them into insanity with poverty to ensure emotions overrule reason. This is not religion - it's simple war strategy...the same strategies that have been used for a lonnnnng time. Tibet's currency is happiness...yet China violently murder them nonstop - it's not religion causing this...it's just humankind's underdeveloped state of being. Eye for an eye going on for aeons...
Aside from anything else, these religious movements all have tax benefits that boggle the mind... And whose god is the "real" one?
- As I said - the few use religion to control as many as they can - when you look into the people behind the popes for instance, the ones that don't come and go but stay for whole lifetimes you will find some of the nastiest people ever. This isn't religion by definition at all other than worship of control and genocide. Almost all religions - Christianity, Brahmanism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Muslism, the American Indian ways, the Martial Art ways, occultism, druidism, alchemy, and so on and so on, teach virtue in one way or another as a path to finding the truth. Just because someone hijacks the name and dupes everyone into thinking it's real doesn't make it so!
Daniel ...why doesnt that same entity continue to offer advice?
- with a belief in energy and spirit it does? communicating consciously with higher states of beings isn't something most people do?
How do you seperate religion from god?
- religion is a way of life or a path to the way or etc...God is everything. The seperation is clear imo.
no one can confirm or deny the existence of this so called higher being.
- this is not true. there are many wise people who have skills that have confounded science and laymen alike. they openly discuss their how why what whens. but these things only come to people when they are ready. as the story goes...a person is in a dark room all their life...then one day a light is switched on...not comfortable...better to let the person slowly adjust as they are ready.
The New World Order is already upon us
- humankind being controlled by the few powerful ones isn't uncommon...the difference this time is they are using psychology en masse to have everyone believe this time it's different...
Its not as if the existence of religious belief has brought any peace to this world, on the contrary it has brought war and oppression throughout the ages, atrocities in the name god... It is a money making scheme and a form of control.
- it is not religion itself that causes the wars...it's the people doing it? Specifically during the last 100 years the controlling families and their clergy power people have manipulated all wars - they fund both sides with weapons, charging them interest on the loans, they push propoganda on both sides to create division...then they conquer. They use people's beliefs against them and drive them into insanity with poverty to ensure emotions overrule reason. This is not religion - it's simple war strategy...the same strategies that have been used for a lonnnnng time. Tibet's currency is happiness...yet China violently murder them nonstop - it's not religion causing this...it's just humankind's underdeveloped state of being. Eye for an eye going on for aeons...
Aside from anything else, these religious movements all have tax benefits that boggle the mind... And whose god is the "real" one?
- As I said - the few use religion to control as many as they can - when you look into the people behind the popes for instance, the ones that don't come and go but stay for whole lifetimes you will find some of the nastiest people ever. This isn't religion by definition at all other than worship of control and genocide. Almost all religions - Christianity, Brahmanism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Muslism, the American Indian ways, the Martial Art ways, occultism, druidism, alchemy, and so on and so on, teach virtue in one way or another as a path to finding the truth. Just because someone hijacks the name and dupes everyone into thinking it's real doesn't make it so!
Daniel ...why doesnt that same entity continue to offer advice?
- with a belief in energy and spirit it does? communicating consciously with higher states of beings isn't something most people do?
How do you seperate religion from god?
- religion is a way of life or a path to the way or etc...God is everything. The seperation is clear imo.
no one can confirm or deny the existence of this so called higher being.
- this is not true. there are many wise people who have skills that have confounded science and laymen alike. they openly discuss their how why what whens. but these things only come to people when they are ready. as the story goes...a person is in a dark room all their life...then one day a light is switched on...not comfortable...better to let the person slowly adjust as they are ready.
Last edited by kplxz on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kplxz
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Re:
@Dv8
Some things are for certain hard to comprehend in the bible , but to me its harder to comprehend that life started from nothing ?
You cannot get life from no life .
- +1
the bible in fact says satan was actually a beutifull angel who turned on his creator along with other angels and then decided to take mankind with him.
- i don't subscribe to this belief. If God is love and God is everything then the being that enables evil is also doing God's work. This one is touchy so I'll leave that there.
And that has had a plan from the beginning of creation that...( he intends to see through regardless of the fact Satan has disrupted it for some thousands of years.)
- includes evil - as God is everything...duality only exists in part of everything - there is more than what we see in the outside world the truth shall set us *free*
Some things are for certain hard to comprehend in the bible , but to me its harder to comprehend that life started from nothing ?
You cannot get life from no life .
- +1
the bible in fact says satan was actually a beutifull angel who turned on his creator along with other angels and then decided to take mankind with him.
- i don't subscribe to this belief. If God is love and God is everything then the being that enables evil is also doing God's work. This one is touchy so I'll leave that there.
And that has had a plan from the beginning of creation that...( he intends to see through regardless of the fact Satan has disrupted it for some thousands of years.)
- includes evil - as God is everything...duality only exists in part of everything - there is more than what we see in the outside world
the truth shall set us *free*I found your take on agnosticism to be interesting. It's not a position I've ever given much respect, and consequently not much thought, but you made me realise not all agnostics are bet hedging fence sitters. It's still not a world view I'll ever subscribe to, but it was thought provoking nonetheless.
I still don't buy into the supernatural (which I'm using as a catch all phrase, including religion), I want evidence. Corroborated evidence. Anecdotal evidence does not count. The laws of physics are homogenous, everything has to obey them, no matter how far out in space they are. Science is, by a long way, the best method available for explaining the world.
There is one question you can ask to determine the validity of a school of thought - how much money can you make from it? Yes, through the years religion has "made" a lot of money, that is besides the point since they either controlled that money in the first place or took it by force. Big money today comes from science - oil, microchips, mining, and so on. Multi-billion dollars industries that dwarf even the richest of religions, and all founded upon scientific discovery - the same scientific discovery that backs evolutionary biology, cosmology, and all the sciences.
If people really could predict the future, read minds, meet with/commune with aliens or the dead or god, or any other of thousands of supernatural claims, do you think they would all use their powers for good? Fuck no! They'd be richer than astronauts and demonstrating their power every chance they got. At least religion is smart enough to make claims that cannot be disproven, but that very shield also damns them from any meaningful power beyond making people feel better - religion offers ZERO explanatory or predictive power, which is fucking remarkable since they all claim a god or gods that created the world. And the best they can come up with is pi == 3? You'd expect someone channeling the word of god to get that right, and you'd expect god to have something interesting to say about the physical state of the universe. How many end of the world prophecies have there been? How many came true? No idea what makes people think new prophecies are any more likely to come true.
I still don't buy into the supernatural (which I'm using as a catch all phrase, including religion), I want evidence. Corroborated evidence. Anecdotal evidence does not count. The laws of physics are homogenous, everything has to obey them, no matter how far out in space they are. Science is, by a long way, the best method available for explaining the world.
There is one question you can ask to determine the validity of a school of thought - how much money can you make from it? Yes, through the years religion has "made" a lot of money, that is besides the point since they either controlled that money in the first place or took it by force. Big money today comes from science - oil, microchips, mining, and so on. Multi-billion dollars industries that dwarf even the richest of religions, and all founded upon scientific discovery - the same scientific discovery that backs evolutionary biology, cosmology, and all the sciences.
If people really could predict the future, read minds, meet with/commune with aliens or the dead or god, or any other of thousands of supernatural claims, do you think they would all use their powers for good? Fuck no! They'd be richer than astronauts and demonstrating their power every chance they got. At least religion is smart enough to make claims that cannot be disproven, but that very shield also damns them from any meaningful power beyond making people feel better - religion offers ZERO explanatory or predictive power, which is fucking remarkable since they all claim a god or gods that created the world. And the best they can come up with is pi == 3? You'd expect someone channeling the word of god to get that right, and you'd expect god to have something interesting to say about the physical state of the universe. How many end of the world prophecies have there been? How many came true? No idea what makes people think new prophecies are any more likely to come true.
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